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	<title>Comments for PipesDreams</title>
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	<link>http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog</link>
	<description>Turning a New Leaf</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 12:34:37 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Baby Boom Booties by David</title>
		<link>http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/archives/2005/comment-page-1#comment-4538</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 12:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/?p=2005#comment-4538</guid>
		<description>Way cool booties!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Way cool booties!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Baby Boom Booties by Tolstoy8</title>
		<link>http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/archives/2005/comment-page-1#comment-4537</link>
		<dc:creator>Tolstoy8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 01:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/?p=2005#comment-4537</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s freaky is that when the baby gets bigger and the movements get stronger, it really DOES look like a little alien is trying to get out...it&#039;s cool though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s freaky is that when the baby gets bigger and the movements get stronger, it really DOES look like a little alien is trying to get out&#8230;it&#8217;s cool though.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Tao of Who? by Alastair</title>
		<link>http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/archives/1865/comment-page-1#comment-4535</link>
		<dc:creator>Alastair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/?p=1865#comment-4535</guid>
		<description>Bah - that hyperlink isn&#039;t supposed to include the final parenthesis, obviously...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bah &#8211; that hyperlink isn&#8217;t supposed to include the final parenthesis, obviously&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Tao of Who? by Alastair</title>
		<link>http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/archives/1865/comment-page-1#comment-4534</link>
		<dc:creator>Alastair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/?p=1865#comment-4534</guid>
		<description>Dunno - immortality, flight, miraculous cures: sounds like solid win to me.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_(Taoism))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dunno &#8211; immortality, flight, miraculous cures: sounds like solid win to me.</p>
<p>(<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_(Taoism))" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_(Taoism))</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on The Tao of Who? by mintyninja</title>
		<link>http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/archives/1865/comment-page-1#comment-4533</link>
		<dc:creator>mintyninja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/?p=1865#comment-4533</guid>
		<description>I never liked the feeling of inaction I got from Taoism. Too much chillaxing.

Wu wei reminds me of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushin&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mushin&lt;/a&gt;, but I prefer Mushin because achieving the &quot;no-mind&quot; state requires constant learning and practice. You have to learn everything before you&#039;re able to let it go. Zen + Swords ftw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never liked the feeling of inaction I got from Taoism. Too much chillaxing.</p>
<p>Wu wei reminds me of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushin" rel="nofollow">Mushin</a>, but I prefer Mushin because achieving the &#8220;no-mind&#8221; state requires constant learning and practice. You have to learn everything before you&#8217;re able to let it go. Zen + Swords ftw.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Tao of Who? by Alastair</title>
		<link>http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/archives/1865/comment-page-1#comment-4532</link>
		<dc:creator>Alastair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/?p=1865#comment-4532</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never read The Tao of Pooh, so I&#039;m hesitant to slag it too hard, but I think that maybe going back to some of the original sources might be more rewarding than proceeding to Hoff’s next opus. 

There are quite a few scholarly translations out there now of both the Daodejing and Zhuangzi, for example, along with various other core texts in the tradition, that could give you a more satisfying sense of Daoist ideas and their diversity. I’m not sure what edition of the Daodejing you picked up, but something with a proper introduction &amp; footnotes makes a lot more sense than those versions that just toss you into a questionably translated series of aphorisms after some opening praise to the mystical wisdom of the East.

Anyway, here are some concrete suggestions. There&#039;s http://bit.ly/9udd1x for the Laozi, which gets explicitly into a lot of the interpretive issues involved in dealing with these texts and is probably worthwhile just on that score. Then for Zhuangzi, there&#039;s Burton Watson&#039;s early but very readable &quot;Basic Writings&quot; (http://bit.ly/cxyRkt). And if you wanted something bigger-picture, I could probably dig something up – I’ve got a box of this stuff lying around my place somewhere.

(Or you could just go back &amp; read The Earthsea Trilogy again…)

And regarding your worry about conservatism, both the books I just mentioned are pretty intensely political, which might come through more clearly in the primary texts than refracted through Hoff. I&#039;m not saying that you&#039;d find the arguments any more compelling, necessarily, just more interesting!

One basic point re: conservatism, for e.g., is that a Daoist might plausibly argue that abusive social relations, domination and inequality are unnatural, so even accepting that there are human goods being a stonecutter (or whatever) deprives you of - and there are quite a few classical Greek thinkers who&#039;d probably suggest that assumption was misguided, not just ancient Daoists - then there&#039;s grounds there for bucking the system. In that case, it would be the only natural thing to do. 

And the ideal political situation described by Laozi, at least, doesn&#039;t really bear any resemblance to modern western society, so taking his ideas as justifying today&#039;s status quo (or any other) requires some fairly elaborate argument. Historically speaking, there&#039;s a distinctive thread in China of Daoism as a dissident, socially volatile tradition that draws on some of these possibilities, and I know at least one or two serious contemporary philosophers who see it as a sort of indigenous democratic tradition.

I&#039;ll give you, though, that the consequences of Hoff&#039;s ideas might be politically obnoxious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never read The Tao of Pooh, so I&#8217;m hesitant to slag it too hard, but I think that maybe going back to some of the original sources might be more rewarding than proceeding to Hoff’s next opus. </p>
<p>There are quite a few scholarly translations out there now of both the Daodejing and Zhuangzi, for example, along with various other core texts in the tradition, that could give you a more satisfying sense of Daoist ideas and their diversity. I’m not sure what edition of the Daodejing you picked up, but something with a proper introduction &amp; footnotes makes a lot more sense than those versions that just toss you into a questionably translated series of aphorisms after some opening praise to the mystical wisdom of the East.</p>
<p>Anyway, here are some concrete suggestions. There&#8217;s <a href="http://bit.ly/9udd1x" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/9udd1x</a> for the Laozi, which gets explicitly into a lot of the interpretive issues involved in dealing with these texts and is probably worthwhile just on that score. Then for Zhuangzi, there&#8217;s Burton Watson&#8217;s early but very readable &#8220;Basic Writings&#8221; (<a href="http://bit.ly/cxyRkt)" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/cxyRkt)</a>. And if you wanted something bigger-picture, I could probably dig something up – I’ve got a box of this stuff lying around my place somewhere.</p>
<p>(Or you could just go back &amp; read The Earthsea Trilogy again…)</p>
<p>And regarding your worry about conservatism, both the books I just mentioned are pretty intensely political, which might come through more clearly in the primary texts than refracted through Hoff. I&#8217;m not saying that you&#8217;d find the arguments any more compelling, necessarily, just more interesting!</p>
<p>One basic point re: conservatism, for e.g., is that a Daoist might plausibly argue that abusive social relations, domination and inequality are unnatural, so even accepting that there are human goods being a stonecutter (or whatever) deprives you of &#8211; and there are quite a few classical Greek thinkers who&#8217;d probably suggest that assumption was misguided, not just ancient Daoists &#8211; then there&#8217;s grounds there for bucking the system. In that case, it would be the only natural thing to do. </p>
<p>And the ideal political situation described by Laozi, at least, doesn&#8217;t really bear any resemblance to modern western society, so taking his ideas as justifying today&#8217;s status quo (or any other) requires some fairly elaborate argument. Historically speaking, there&#8217;s a distinctive thread in China of Daoism as a dissident, socially volatile tradition that draws on some of these possibilities, and I know at least one or two serious contemporary philosophers who see it as a sort of indigenous democratic tradition.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll give you, though, that the consequences of Hoff&#8217;s ideas might be politically obnoxious.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Do you boys like Mexico?&#8221; by Melly</title>
		<link>http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/archives/1797/comment-page-1#comment-4531</link>
		<dc:creator>Melly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/?p=1797#comment-4531</guid>
		<description>If I don&#039;t go to all-inclusive resorts to get pampered and drink ridiculous amounts of alcohol, I never get any reading time in during the year. This is the sad, but true fact of my life.  Also, I stay away from the internet the entire time I&#039;m gone. It&#039;s a wonderful break. 

I bring 7-10 books, a giant bottle of SPF 60, a ridiculously large sunhat and the various and sundry stomach remedies that keep me going even while here in the Great Whitish North. 

The first time I went I snorkeled in a marine preserve. It was one of the most awesome experiences ever. 

I love Mexico - the posh resorts and the touristy bits and the &quot;real&quot; parts. My favourite trip was when I was twenty and went across the border from Texas into Matamoros. I got loaded and fell down some stairs, someone set my dress on fire, and an 11-year old villager grabbed my ass. 

Having gone to PV and to the Yucatan, I have to say that I love the Caribbean side for the beaches, but if you&#039;re on the Pacific side, it&#039;s much easier to find more to do off-resort, like Al did. 

The above lacking--in-cohesion thoughts brought to you by the beginnings of a headache... Sorry. :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I don&#8217;t go to all-inclusive resorts to get pampered and drink ridiculous amounts of alcohol, I never get any reading time in during the year. This is the sad, but true fact of my life.  Also, I stay away from the internet the entire time I&#8217;m gone. It&#8217;s a wonderful break. </p>
<p>I bring 7-10 books, a giant bottle of SPF 60, a ridiculously large sunhat and the various and sundry stomach remedies that keep me going even while here in the Great Whitish North. </p>
<p>The first time I went I snorkeled in a marine preserve. It was one of the most awesome experiences ever. </p>
<p>I love Mexico &#8211; the posh resorts and the touristy bits and the &#8220;real&#8221; parts. My favourite trip was when I was twenty and went across the border from Texas into Matamoros. I got loaded and fell down some stairs, someone set my dress on fire, and an 11-year old villager grabbed my ass. </p>
<p>Having gone to PV and to the Yucatan, I have to say that I love the Caribbean side for the beaches, but if you&#8217;re on the Pacific side, it&#8217;s much easier to find more to do off-resort, like Al did. </p>
<p>The above lacking&#8211;in-cohesion thoughts brought to you by the beginnings of a headache&#8230; Sorry. <img src='http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on The Tao of Who? by laura</title>
		<link>http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/archives/1865/comment-page-1#comment-4530</link>
		<dc:creator>laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/?p=1865#comment-4530</guid>
		<description>The same thing that bugged you about Taoism also bugs me about Buddhism. I have no way of knowing if it was created for this purpose, but both seem like very easy ways to justify and prop up a stratified society. &quot;Be content with the present moment and how things are&quot; is so close to &quot;Don&#039;t challenge the status quo for yourself or others&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The same thing that bugged you about Taoism also bugs me about Buddhism. I have no way of knowing if it was created for this purpose, but both seem like very easy ways to justify and prop up a stratified society. &#8220;Be content with the present moment and how things are&#8221; is so close to &#8220;Don&#8217;t challenge the status quo for yourself or others&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Do you boys like Mexico?&#8221; by Alex Willis</title>
		<link>http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/archives/1797/comment-page-1#comment-4528</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Willis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/?p=1797#comment-4528</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve had this conversation already, but your post is a more clear assessment of your position, which I can appreciate a lot more now. As a fellow think-too-mucher, I found myself surprised to really enjoy my resort time in Mexico. I think a great deal of this enjoyment was derived from the fact that I was so close to Puerto Vallarta. I spent very little time at the resort, as the city was so close. Now, the city was a real &quot;touristy&quot; place, so I am under no impression that I experienced the &quot;real&quot; Mexico. But I was traveling with my mother, who is, I am happy to report, an excellent travel companion, and who had been to PVR before, and she informed me about all the excellent things to do around PVR (and there are many of these). I guess what I am trying to say is that conditions for my enjoyment were optimal. 

Coming back to the resort after full days away from it was actually enjoyable. We only ate one supper at the resort, the night before we left, out of a need to pack and be up early the next day. But as for the other evenings returning to that pampered den, I quite enjoyed sauntering down to one of the bars for a ridiculously parasoled drink and smoking a fine cigar on the beach afterwards, and watching the sunset. I was also accompanied on my trip by the wonderful writings of Iain Banks, whom I had rekindled my love for, and reading The Algebraist by the dying light was a pretty irreplaceable experience. 

I&#039;ll stop now. I am not trying to rub anything in, because I think that I could just as easily have had the same experience as you. I like winging it, wandering aimlessly, much more than I do the feeling of safe enclosure. Maybe it&#039;s kind of sad that I discovered that I am happy with safety, kind of like how at one point last year I thought that Stephen Harper had made some really good points about something or other. 

Fuck. I don&#039;t like where this is going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve had this conversation already, but your post is a more clear assessment of your position, which I can appreciate a lot more now. As a fellow think-too-mucher, I found myself surprised to really enjoy my resort time in Mexico. I think a great deal of this enjoyment was derived from the fact that I was so close to Puerto Vallarta. I spent very little time at the resort, as the city was so close. Now, the city was a real &#8220;touristy&#8221; place, so I am under no impression that I experienced the &#8220;real&#8221; Mexico. But I was traveling with my mother, who is, I am happy to report, an excellent travel companion, and who had been to PVR before, and she informed me about all the excellent things to do around PVR (and there are many of these). I guess what I am trying to say is that conditions for my enjoyment were optimal. </p>
<p>Coming back to the resort after full days away from it was actually enjoyable. We only ate one supper at the resort, the night before we left, out of a need to pack and be up early the next day. But as for the other evenings returning to that pampered den, I quite enjoyed sauntering down to one of the bars for a ridiculously parasoled drink and smoking a fine cigar on the beach afterwards, and watching the sunset. I was also accompanied on my trip by the wonderful writings of Iain Banks, whom I had rekindled my love for, and reading The Algebraist by the dying light was a pretty irreplaceable experience. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stop now. I am not trying to rub anything in, because I think that I could just as easily have had the same experience as you. I like winging it, wandering aimlessly, much more than I do the feeling of safe enclosure. Maybe it&#8217;s kind of sad that I discovered that I am happy with safety, kind of like how at one point last year I thought that Stephen Harper had made some really good points about something or other. </p>
<p>Fuck. I don&#8217;t like where this is going.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Do you boys like Mexico?&#8221; by David</title>
		<link>http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/archives/1797/comment-page-1#comment-4527</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pipesdreams.org/blog/?p=1797#comment-4527</guid>
		<description>Your description of your &quot;typical&quot; vacation sounds like how I spent a substantial amount of time between high school and university and between undergrad and post-grad studies except:
- not a question of deciding if I should eat the dodgy street food but rather which dodgy street food I should eat
- no avoiding eye contact with strangers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your description of your &#8220;typical&#8221; vacation sounds like how I spent a substantial amount of time between high school and university and between undergrad and post-grad studies except:<br />
- not a question of deciding if I should eat the dodgy street food but rather which dodgy street food I should eat<br />
- no avoiding eye contact with strangers</p>
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